Rear Awning, anyone done it?

[chin_k]

I got the awning (and bracket) removed when I was washing and applying the wet-look polish. I am a bit OCD when it come to cleaning. We have a few rare rain storms in past few weeks, and since I am still working on the area, I did not put the bracket back. I just put some tapes over the holes, and it seems to keep the water out.

Since the backing will only attached to the nut in one spot (cf. a long bracket that spans over multiple bolts), I don't think it is important to match the coefficient of expansion, but it sure do look more professional if I do end up putting FRP there. I probably just going to use some aluminum plates that I have laying around in my garage, however.

I do agree that it is a lot less work if I leave the brackets in place, so I may take your suggestion and just leave it on the rig after I done with the outside.

[Blue~Go]

I agree that expansion compatibility is not really important here. But I think we might be envisioning different things (you mentioned only tiny contact to riv nut). If I'm using a fiberglass backing block, I'll be adhering it to the shell with thickened epoxy, so they become one. A side benefit is that you now have a flat surface for washers and nuts, vs. the semi-Pringles you can get when you mate washers to the irregular non-molded side of the fiberglass. But in this case you could use any type of backing plate (except I'd say not Starboard or similar, as they creep under load). Anything will be an improvement over the original. If anything but fiberglass, then I'd likely bed the block with a polyurethane (and that block never comes back off it just stays there as part of the shell).

I couldn't imagine wanting to un-bed and re-bed awning brackets each time. If I had to remove mine on a regular basis I'd be leaving the brackets on and just removing the awning.

[HoosierB]

Upon looking at Blue's PDF of the roof construction layout, I identified wood backing for the ladder hoops. But I can't figure out if there is any wood support that runs the rear length of the flat cake layer above the clearance lights.
In addition, what is the wood reinforcement layout for the rear door wall?
I'm looking for structural attachment point areas.
Thanks

[Blue~Go]

Hi Hoosier,

At least in mine, there is no wood along where the clearance lights go. You can check this on yours by pulling down the carpeted "hump" above the back door. But I wouldn't really expect there to be. When you have a lot of "angles" close together in a fiberglass shape, it's fairly strong on its own. There are the edges of the roof, the swoop, and then the door flange.

The roof liner comes down around the edge swoop, then it's just the back of the fiberglass.

That said, because of being able to remove the hump, you can get to that area to add something. Likewise (although a bit more cramped) above the closet. Behind the inside shower is tougher .... if you have the rear outdoor shower like me, you could possibly remove it and maybe get up in there? Otherwise perhaps a deck plate in the shower wall for access (this is often done on boats when you need to get to the transom to back things up and there is no easy way).

[HoosierB]

Thanks Blue~Go!
I have the driver side shower, so "crawl space" up behind the shower wall inside the jack/tool compartment is tight. Drat!
My plan is to install a hard case awning like the Eezi-Awn 2000 across the roof over the rear entry door. This one seems unique because it's an easy to set up retractable, not the usual hand fold-up. Something to consider when that high above the ground. Features a high quality aluminum case (not a vinyl bag) and offers decent canopy coverage extending to 6'. It would need brackets to secure the aluminum case to the roof above the clearance lights. Securing the brackets is pretty important since it will be adding a 30lbs. "rear air spoiler" to the rig.
Maybe a bad idea...thoughts?

Eezi-Awn:

[Blue~Go]

I don't know that I'd say it's a bad idea. You just have to make sure it's done well (which, knowing you, it would be).

What I'd be thinking about:

1) Ladder will have to change it looks like.

2) Will the legs extend enough to reach the ground which can sometimes be a long way down depending on parking angle? Does the design accommodate that structurally if you have to add leg length?

3) Will the door still open all the way (awning angle)?

4) Does the awning incorporate optional body leg brackets (I don't have time to read manual at the moment)? Would that work? (It would solve the "it's a long way to the ground" problem, but then where would they land on the Chinook body?)

5) Securely attaching to shell.

6) I'm not clear if you are thinking of attaching it "in the swoop" or up on the roof top. If on the roof top maybe just check that the backside is designed to take the wind pressure of being broadside to the wind. I would presume that on some cars and SUV's it's up off the roof, so most likely that's not an issue.

7) How quick/easy is it to stow either for sudden winds, rain, or just to get going? (And how much does that matter to you.)

8) Maybe this should have been #1, but given the height from the ground (due to the rear door/natural tendency for rear to change height due to parking angle), will it provide the shelter you seek? Clearly it will on a lowish SUV.

Those are the things I'd be thinking about (and I'm sure you already are too). #5 would be key presuming it passes all the other "tests" for your usage.

[caconcourse]

It would need brackets to secure the aluminum case to the roof above the clearance lights. Securing the brackets is pretty important since it will be adding a 30lbs. "rear air spoiler" to the rig.
Maybe a bad idea...thoughts?

I would recommend using industrial strength VHB tape (very high bond) to fasten the awning brackets to the gel coat, along with some of (Blue's dreaded) "pointy screws" to provide the initial compression and shearing protection. This is what I am using to hold my bike hooks to the rear wall above the rear locker. I also used the VHB tape to hold down my flexible solar panel on top of the air conditioner.

The bike hook attachment is incredibly strong. When we snagged a bike wheel at a dump station, we bent the hook and broke the bike wheel, with no weakening of the mount. I had to cut the tape from the surface with a razor when I had to replace the hook, and I got lazy and tried to pull off the last inch of tape. It actually ripped off some gelcoat, which I had to fill with epoxy. Basically, the tape spreads the bond across its surface area, making the connection integral to the fiberglass structure, eliminating small stress points of screws and bolts taking the load. You can easily hang a 50lb bike from the hook while waiting to shift the load to the fork blocks, which are also taped and bolted to the rear wall. 30lbs mounted to the horizontal surface would be a piece of cake.

Here is a link to the VHB tape on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012R ... UTF8&psc=1

[HoosierB]

1) Ladder will have to change it looks like.

Yes. I was thinking of cutting the top hoops off at roof top level, add standoff pegs and cap with rubber feet, leaving the OEM ladder in place.

2) Will the legs extend enough to reach the ground which can sometimes be a long way down depending on parking angle? Does the design accommodate that structurally if you have to add leg length?

Judging from the video, it looks like fully extended, the canopy angle would obviously be more slanted downward to accommodate the Chinook's height.

3) Will the door still open all the way (awning angle)?

Not sure (see #2). This is a concern.

4) Does the awning incorporate optional body leg brackets (I don't have time to read manual at the moment)? Would that work? (It would solve the "it's a long way to the ground" problem, but then where would they land on the Chinook body?)

No body leg brackets available that I could tell. But that would be an easy fab to test it out.

5) Securely attaching to shell.

This is the big question! And I don't know the answer.

6) I'm not clear if you are thinking of attaching it "in the swoop" or up on the roof top. If on the roof top maybe just check that the backside is designed to take the wind pressure of being broadside to the wind. I would presume that on some cars and SUV's it's up off the roof, so most likely that's not an issue.

I was looking at installing "L" brackets along the low roof top just above the clearance lights. They recommend at least 3" above door height for clearance. So with a case height of 4" and bracket height of 3+", a total of 7" or so. Thats' getting up there. Again, these were designed for roof/rack edge on SUV's, the case end facing into the wind, not broadside of it.

7) How quick/easy is it to stow either for sudden winds, rain, or just to get going? (And how much does that matter to you.)

This design was a PLUS because of the "automatic roll-out/up" feature. No hand folding or rolling of the canopy. All the support arms/legs are hinge integrated into the frame for "un snap" deployment. No loose pole assemblies to deal with.
Claims it will stand winds of up to 30mph, 40+ with optional tie-downs. But if it's anywhere near that windy, I'm not interested in sitting outside anyway. I guess the same cautions that apply to our OEM side awnings.

8) Maybe this should have been #1, but given the height from the ground (due to the rear door/natural tendency for rear to change height due to parking angle), will it provide the shelter you seek? Clearly it will on a lowish SUV.

Good question, for sure. With a straight out canopy deployment of almost 7', any angle of downturn would definitely reduce that. Too much math for me right now

Those are the things I'd be thinking about (and I'm sure you already are too). #5 would be key presuming it passes all the other "tests" for your usage.

I agree. And, maybe, it's just not meant to be...

[Blue~Go]

I want to say I used 9' poles on my "shade canopy," although I have not used it since early 2015 and may be mis-remembering. They were orange aluminum telescoping poles of about 1" diameter that I bought from REI. This just barely allowed me to open the door (light scraping but shade cloth is cheap). The shade cloth was attached at topmost roof level, and I had it sticking out back maybe 5' or so? I know, not much to go on.

[Edited to add: Okay, I checked some things out and I had a few things wrong in my mind, but not knowing if you had already read it decided to just add this vs. removing the above. They were 8' poles, the taller ones found at this link. Okay, that was a ridiculous link, they are REI item number 845322 (8' version). I had the cloth on the *lower* roof level (the bottom of the swoop) and they were just barely enough to clear the door. In fact the door scraped slightly - more than I would want on a purchased awning, but okay on cheap shade cloth. So if mounting to the upper roof, the poles would need to be slightly longer. I had the cloth going outward about 5' or so (then guy lines to keep it semi-steady). This was parked on fairly level ground, so the rear of the Chinook was not way up in the air (although mine may ride higher than some).]

VHB is great stuff, and I have used it for a number of things. One thing to keep in mind is that the bond to the coach is only as good as the bond/strength of the gelcoat (outer white coating, made of polyester) to the base fiberglass in the specific area you attach something.

I was thinking of attaching something to fiberglass (not the Chinook but same concept) with Fastener plates that use glue and I did some testing on a cutout piece of fiberglass I had left over from something else. I prepped them all carefully, then fastened one to gelcoat. For the next one I ground off the gelcoat and glued the fastener right to the fiberglass substrate. And for the third I fastened a small angle bracket with a smallish machine screw to the same fiberglass piece. Then I beat on them all with a hammer. The first one failed relatively soon, because the gelcoat failed. The gelcoat was still attached to the fastener, but cracked off the fiberglass substrate. Next, the one directly on the fiberglass substrate failed, but it took considerably more force and failed more "evenly". I never did break off the machine screw (sure, I could have, but I was already whaling on it much harder than #2 and the bracket was deformed so I stopped the test). I went with mechanical fasteners for that application (but have used VHB for other things - nothing against it at all).

There is an advantage with VHB over what I was testing in that you can greatly increase the surface area by using much larger mount plates. More surface area, and a better chance the gelcoat will hang on. Or you can remove the gelcoat of course, but that somewhat defeats the purpose of no holes. These applications being more-or-less one-offs, and gelcoat not being consistent (even over one vehicle) you can make a good guess but obviously testing to destruction isn't practical. I would think with enough foot area and good prep it would probably work. But I might use mechanical means because of the extra stress if it's windy and the awning is out. Hmm, not sure.

Not sure if these would be any help, but ARB and some other companies make various brackets that you can mod -- might be useful or just inspirational.

Maybe if the math gets overwhelming (I agree!) you could do a mockup with sticks, cloth, and tape Just to see how the pole lengths vs. awning length, vs. roof height vs. door work out.

[HoosierB]

Taking Blue’s suggestion, I did a crude “mock up” of a tarp & poles rear awning. The first thing that stood out, was how cumbersome ANY bag awning of this type would be to deploy. Most of the concerns shared in previous posts were definitely spotlighted, especially how high the attachment to the roof needs to be. Imagine trying to manually deploy your side awning without a crank handle, only using straps, latches, loose poles, and flappy canvas, but another 1/2 foot higher up. A step stool/ladder is needed to fiddle with it which becomes an acrobatic nightmare due to bumpers, spare tire cover, steps in the way. I’m not that nimble and I want easy. I did decide that a 7’ canopy extension would be pretty good coverage for the rear entry if something could be made to work.

Other options:
I talked with Carefree Awnings and asked if the Truckin’ Awn Auto-Rafter could be modified from a 4’ to 7’ extension by just adding extra fabric to the canopy roll. “Sorry, no can do”… because the support arm mechanisms cannot extend beyond the requirements for 4’.
Okay…
she then suggested a “cut-down” version of a Fiesta patio awning. A special order item that could be made to any width (they have done 6 1/2 feet). This model has a canopy extension of 9 feet! Critical measurements are needed for the vertical support arms so they can be attached securely at the floor line, not just thru the fiberglass shell. One obstacle right off would be the spare tire carrier being in the way, and the narrow clearance between the driver side taillight and compartment door. The ladder would also need to go. Hmmm, not sure...

Back to Truckin’ Awn… a possible easy mod (in theory) if using the stock 4’ Auto-Rafter model would be adapting a tarp & pole add-on to the deployed awning. The extra canopy extension could be pretty much whatever (Presto! From 4 to 9 feet!). This would be adjustable in height using the tent pole idea and could also be an optional windbreak or mesh-style sun shade. Right now, I’m leaning towards this idea. It’s lighter in weight, simple to deploy (no step-stool gymnastics) and the support arm attachment points are easier to access for installation, plus it's a lot less money out of the box.
Still thinking....