Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Split from General / Technical for discussion of anything electrical, electronic... 12v, Inverter, Satellite, Headlights, flashlights etc.
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caconcourse
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by caconcourse »

Dano wrote: March 1st, 2019, 8:55 am Clay/Dave/Hoosier/Everyone;
What would your opinion be on this PWM Renogy charge controller? Flush mount like the Sunforce but is a 4 stage charge controller vs. 3 and has a few more features like a little battery graphic showing how charged your batteries are. It’s a flush mount like the Sunforce/Coleman but has more functionality I think and it’s only $70. It will need a face plate to be made since it’s not quite as close at the Sunforce is in size...Opinions appreciated! https://www.renogy.com/renogy-adventure ... d-display/
That actually looks like a nice controller, especially for the price. It's a lot of extra work to install properly if the sensor wires need to be run to the batteries. It looks like it consumes a little more power, but probably still a lot better than the MK15. The fourth stage, as I understand it, is equalization, which "bakes" the batteries with 14+ volts for a few minutes every few weeks to remove build-up. I'm not sure how much real-world benefit in battery life that means. I doubt it is significant. Estimating battery level is really just an extrapolation of the voltage, so it's not new information, except the voltage is sensed at the battery rather than at the controller. The Sunforce has lights that indicate battery level (red/yellow/green), as well as the actual readout.

It would provide some benefits, but I don't think it would affect your behavior, or do a significantly better job charging and maintaining the batteries than the SunForce. It's more of a parasite (50 mA vs ~30mA), so you will lose a little bit more of charging amps. In a true 30Amp (400 Watt solar system at full power) system, this would be really insignificant, but with my 150W system, I typically see about max 3.5 amps on a regular day, and have never seen over 8.5 Amps (in direct noon sun on a sunny day). Then that parasite load is more of an impact percentage-wise.
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HoosierB
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by HoosierB »

Dano... I'm with Clay on this one for all the same reasons.
If you plan on an overhaul to your solar system, you may want to consider the more efficient MPPT controller.
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deppstein
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by deppstein »

Dano--I am of no help here since I simply use the 5-stage 15 amp controller that came with my amp 200 watt solar suitcase (I see Zamp now has a 230 amp suitcase--even better!). But Clay, and Hoosier seem to have you covered.
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by Dano »

So, basically Clay, you are saying stick with the wiring that is present, swap out the Mark15 controller with the Sunforce and find 150 watts of panels and we’re good? I think I’m starting to like keeping it simple...Thanks Guys for all your help, I appreciate it...my brain hurts... :cry:
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by 68camaro »

I am in process of upgrading electric/solar and went with following:

Batteries - I went with two 6 volt that are same size as Group 27 - 220ah at 20 hrs; I went with 6 volt because I believe they can be taken down below 50% with much less damage than deep cycle if necessary.
http://www.bestconverter.com/Fullriver- ... HmzcS3MyV4

PowerCenter - went with full 4-stage Boonedocker http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker ... HmxNi3MyV4

Battery & Solar monitor - http://www.bestconverter.com/Trimetric- ... Hmxzi3MyV4 and http://www.bestconverter.com/SC-2030-Ch ... HmyLy3MyV4

Solar - haven't decided on yet but looking at several that will fit on roof.

I also bought but returned a 2000 watt Inverter after realizing I really didn't need it nor would it be practical for my battery bank size.

I am having PowerCenter and Battery Monitor installed next week and hope to include Solar as well. I am almost 50% sure I will have slide pulled out and install two additional 6v batteries.

May not be best but really fits my needs.

My biggest advice is to calculate AH's you will actually use per day and per trip and size accordingly or have plan to recharge on the road.
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Dano
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by Dano »

Here you go Blue (from the interior thread) ...

I think I have the general gist of it. I need to get my rig finished and on the road, finishing hours are getting long and I need some completion, so that tells you my immediate need. I am looking at Renogy panels and a 200 watt system. With their connectors, it allows for expansion at a later date but I think this is a good mixture of getting something installed that has enough horsepower and also available roof space, as you well know, we are challenged up there. Cost is also very good for me and I feel good about this choice. They have new panels that are 19.6” wide that will overhang our flat top sections by about half an inch, I’m fine with it. Without too much butchering, it will need to be a 100 watt and two single 50 watt panels to fit according to my measurements and drawings. This will also maintain some walking space and to me eye, future expansion of another 350 watts should I ever decide to go that far. I understand that with that much addition, significant changes would need to be made to handle the juice at that level. Again, likely why I don’t want to go that far at the moment.

Renogy also makes a “suitcase” style set of 100 watt panels complete with charge controller already attached, which could also be used to add extra power for sunny locations as per Blue’s setup, hence my previous question of can you use two charge controllers at once? One of the main benefits of thwse panels is they fit inside my beds to be stored which is very attractive to me.

Adding this on top of the panels would seem an ideal fit for me and give me plenty of charge. Will using two charge controllers (one Coach mounted and one externally mounted) create any kind of mixed messaging to the batteries or create any whacky charging issues? It also comes without a controller if that is better but does that need special wiring other than just attaching to the batteries with alligator clips?
With controller: https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt- ... w-voyager/
Without controller: https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt- ... ontroller/

Need to try and keep the cost reasonable on any of these items. I am sure I could spend tons but are not willing to do so at this point. I can do panels chargers and batteries for right $1,000 and at this stage, is okay with me and will still get a good amount of power and likely enough recharge every day to suit our needs, “I think”.

Our usage will be just like Clays: a day or two of dry camping followed by a day of hook up possibly, daily driving to your next destination using the alternator as a helper to get back to full. Hooking up for no longer than a day, using post power to top up and on we go. Possibly more than two days without hooking up. My generator can help if we get down too much.

I have a Parallax 3 stage converter that is new and will stick with that for now.

I need to replace my charge controller obviously, the Mark 15 will not do. If I can keep it where it is located, so much the better. I want to try and avoid another “major” project if possible, see getting finished comment above about getting on the road! Many have felt the Sunforce PWM controller to be a cost effective, “almost” direct fit which is attractive. I have mentioned Renogy has a flush fit Adventurer controller that is also PWM as an alternative but would welcome your feedback on that or anything else. I can possible re-locate it to the opening where the old TV used to be housed which is above the battery bank inside to get it closer. I could mount a controller there but, it’s only 6 feet closer at that point. Your expertise and knowledge should have an opinion on whether we are really gaining anything by doing that. It’s more work but I’m willing to do it if voltage drop is a lot. Alternatively, taking out one or two wires and replacing them with heavier gauges to avoid voltage drop is do-able, say, from the charge controller if it was left further from the batteries in its original location down to the batteries. I will be using Renogy wires from the panels to the charge controller and they are 10AWG unless I am mistaken.

Finally, battery choices: I’m pretty much at wet, deep cycle batteries if anything because of cost. Interstate SRM29’s batteries for the Coach, 220 amp hours or so, “reasonably” affordable


So, to summarize with questions...

New Panels: 200 watts of Renogy panels up top with expansion for over 300 watts at a later date if desired or needed
Extra Charging: 100 watt Renogy suitcase as a great alternative in shady locations to still get charging but with charge controller possible issues, to be determined
Converter: Keep the Parallax converter as its new
Charge Controller Location: Hopefully keep the charge controller where it is, use the Sunforce as it fits or replace with a better option. Moderate relocation surgery possible here OR just run some new heavier wires to help avoid voltage drop
Charge Controller Model: Cheap, solid and simple recommendation for a charge controller: either Sunforce or Renogy at this point is where I’m at.
Batteries: Interstate SRM29’s


Sorry for the Clavell length novel post, I just want closure!!
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Dano
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by Dano »

Alright, DECISION HAS BEEN MADE!! :D :D :D

Renogy - 200 watts of solar panels: 1 x100, 2x 50, with 300 watts of expansion if required
Renogy - 10AWG wires for connection to the charge controller
Sunforce/Coleman - 68032 3 stage charge controller with LCD readout
Interstate - SRM27 or SRM27B lead acid batteries depending on availability
Parallax - 45RU 3 stage built in power converter

Possible re-location of charge controller to the old TV hole area to be closer to the batteries if feasible during installation with wire gauge thickness upgrade from the charge controller to the batteries if I can do it.

I think for the cost, it’s a really good start and could be upgraded pretty substantially if I ever felt the need, not to mention it should fit our needs and usage well but only a few trips will tell. I'll post photos of the install when two feet of snow melts from the roof! :lol:

Thanks everyone for your feedback, especially Clay, Dave, Hoosier, Blue, Kev and 68Camaro!!
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by HoosierB »

Dano,
Looks like a good plan. Good luck with the install and keep up the great posts!
Will the Renogy panels be the monocrystalline/Eclipse?
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Dano
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by Dano »

Monocrystalline but not the Eclipse version Hoosier, those are about 21.6" wide. These new version's from Renogy are the only ones they have that are 19.6" wide which will only overhang about 1/2" which I liked. These are also about 5" shorter than the original design.
https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt- ... ct-design/

They also make a 50 watt panel in the same width. Also shorter than the original design as above.
https://www.renogy.com/renogy-50-watt-1 ... w-edition/

I am going to mount a 100W in the original location with a 50W behind it, which will fit in front of the fridge vent and another just about beside that on the flat section directly behind the A/C unit. This will allow full access to get up and some walkway on the roof down the other side. Attached is a quick mock up I drew to make sure everything would fit...The wire entry point (Gland) which will affect the main panels location will be determined from where the old wires actually go in to the body. I guess I'll have to wait and see once I take the panel off....I love surprises! :lol:

On a final note, these panels will require the mounting brackets to be installed on the short ends as opposed to down the long sides as per standard. It's different but I'm okay with it. My original panel is also mounted this way. Short of making new, custom brackets, it has to be done this way because our flat roof sections aren't wide enough to allow the Z brackets to work in this configuration.
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Solar Panel Locations.JPG
Last edited by Dano on March 5th, 2019, 7:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dano
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Re: Alright everyone, I need electrical upgrades, time for ALL NEW! Suggestions needed!

Post by Dano »

This drawing shows the potential panel upgrades from 200 watts to 450W. I would need to take off the WInegard antenna and replace it with a King Jack pedestal style but that should, subject to final measurements, allow two more 100W panels down the other side plus another 50W. With this configuration, you would need to be lifted by crane to walk on the roof!! Not likely I would go this far with that amount of panels but I like knowing it's possible...
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Solar Panel Locations Upgrade.jpg
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