Cabinet floor panel above driver's cab

[Rhythmtone]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply on the other thread, I will circle back to that.

At the moment, I am starting on my build/update,
Is there any way on earth to remove this floor panel inside the storage cabinet above the driver's cab?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/66nrQq6oLm7h5roA7

I have removed every screw and trim piece, as you can see, but it seems impossible to lift up the floor panel inside the cabinet and gain access to underneath it.

There are a bunch of wires, lost screws, and dirt underneath it - not only would I like to clean it and recover the rattling screws rolling around, I would maybe like to run my new wiring underneath, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated,
Thanks,
Dave
1999 Premier 76k miles

[Blue~Go]

I might be able to provide at least some info. I have a 1999 Concourse.

So I currently have the side pillars (the ones that have the seatbelt top brackets in them and wrap around into the "living room") removed, and also the whole face of the overhead cabinets.

So I'm able to peek under that piece of carpeted plywood "floor" and also between the metal Ford cab roof and the cab overhead piece.

I have never tried to remove this bottom piece, mind you. Just now, lifting moderately up on it, it's definitely not loose. Like maybe I could yank it off but I'm not trying to do that. Or maybe I couldn't.

Interestingly I can see one long pointy section of a pointy screw coming down through the Ford roof sheet metal, so presumably it's coming down through that floor piece, but..... in the stock carpet of the floor piece above it I see no screw head.... hmmm?

I thought well maybe there was a spacer cleat in that area that they screwed down first (cuz it does NOT look like that floor was carpeted after it was put in). But in that area the overcab floor seems to sit right down onto the cab roof. Then on the sides where the cab roof starts to curve down, there are gaps because the overhead floor stays flat (eg stereo antenna cable goes through there).

So maybe not too much help, except to say that you'd probably have a better chance after removing the pillar covers (first) and then the cabinet "face" (meaning that whole molded fiberglass thingie with the headliner glued to it that surrounds the actual cabinet doors, stereo, etc.).

Pretty clearly they put that overcab floor in (pre-carpeted I would guess?) before they put on the cabinet front molded piece, and then the side pillars, and then the cover strip between the bottom part of the molded cabinet front and the Chinook molded Ford cab piece. Presuming yours is like mine. It does look the same in the photo you posted.

******
But that said, I wonder if your rattling screws etc. are above the cab headliner? (under that floor and under the cab roof). I only say that because there is a lot more space there. But...it could be both.

I think that cab headliner might come down a bit just by removing the oak joiner strip on the overhead (forward of the cabinets), but I'm not sure as I removed the cabinet front first, then the oak strip. (that gives huge access to the area over the headliner) Maybe the side pillars need to be off first.... Or possibly by pulling down that panel with the various switches and sticking a vacuum in (I haven't done that). Of course if your stuff is actually only below the overhead floor (hence over the cab metal roof) then that wouldn't help.

[Rhythmtone]

Thanks for the reply.

The loose screws are below the carpet panel, but not on the metal roof - I have also taken apart lots of stuff in this area and when you look up from the driver's seat you see the factory metal roof (after taking out the switch panels in the driver's seat), but when you look in the small space below that carpeted panel, it's fiberglass. Obviously there are layers and it's a sandwich, haha, I might try a bore scope camera.

I can live with the screws and could probably get most or all of them by parking uphill on a slant and reaching in with a pole magnet - I just wanted to run wires under that panel but I'll probably say the heck with it, there's probably a reason why it's not been done, being that it's impossible to remove that cabinet floor panel.

A previous owner had an amplifier above and endless wires running from the driver's stereo up into that storage area, it is a lot, and a although well done for the time, no longer necessary and a bit of a mess - they all run through the pillars and then up into that cabinet via the small 1/2" gap between that carpeted panel and the face/doors etc - that's also where they dropped all the screws during installation, haha.

I've put the stereo wiring back to factory, and found out that they ran the whole kit from the main battery, not the coach, so there's that, I'll probably just run new surface mount wires for the inverter that I wanted to put up into that cabinet, especially since they need a path to the coach battery drawer. I was HOPING to use the existing wires that the amplifier used to run the new inverter, but when I saw that it was hooked to the engine battery, wah wah, no go, haha.

Thanks for the help though, I'll post some pictures when it's done,
Dave

[Blue~Go]

I have also taken apart lots of stuff in this area and when you look up from the driver's seat you see the factory metal roof (after taking out the switch panels in the driver's seat),

Same here.

but when you look in the small space below that carpeted panel, it's fiberglass. Obviously there are layers and it's a sandwich, haha, I might try a bore scope camera.

Huh. Oh, wait, I wonder if you are looking right where the cab roof starts to curve down, but the overhead floor stays flat? There is some fiberglass at that point (but it doesn't really touch the shelf -- more on that below).

OK i just looked again. Since yours is the same year and a Premier, I can't see how it would be any fancier than mine. On mine the shelf is literally just a piece of plywood with carpet wrapped around it. It sits right on the top of the metal Ford cab roof. Just plunked down (the carpet is there of course). On each side about 18" in from the side wall -- where the cab roof starts to curve down, but the plywood stays flat -- there are some fiberglass pieces that connect the cab roof to top of the fiberglass body "wing" (you know, that flat area where bugs go to die when you drive where the Chinook body flares out from the cab body). But the plywood just sits on top. There are a few folded up pieces of the same carpet "shimming" it up, but mostly it just stays flat by the rigidity of the plywood. I can lift it up enough to see under it (and I can see through the gap because my entire forward cabinet fiberglass face thingie is off).

There are quite a few black plastic P-clips screwed up into the bottom of the overhead "floor" (so they are visible when you peer in there between bottom of floor and top of cab) holding various wires (generator harness, etc.). I could see those potentially having broken or maybe the screws come out. (Oh but I see you mention below how the extra/rattly screws got in there.)

I can live with the screws and could probably get most or all of them by parking uphill on a slant and reaching in with a pole magnet - I just wanted to run wires under that panel but I'll probably say the heck with it, there's probably a reason why it's not been done, being that it's impossible to remove that cabinet floor panel.

I did run a few wires across the overcab. An 8AWG duplex for my refrigerator, a 10AWG duplex for my passenger side solar panels, and a pair of 16AWG so I could put the furnace thermostat right next to my pillow (luxury!). I could see two choices:

1) There was some space behind the "bulge" at the bottom of the fiberglass overhead-cabinet-front headlinered molded surround piece.

2) There is plenty of space right on the overhead that is right out in the open when the cabinet front is off, but which will be hidden by the top of the cabinet front when it's in place. That's where I ran all of the wires mentioned above, in cushion clamps screwed up into the roof liner (Chinook already had some of these holding other wires; I just added to them to make it more secure and because I wanted cushion clamps not just wee plastic ones with the larger wires.) I think you could get to this even with the cabinet in place.

My solar and refrigerator wires then go down the side of the overcab, then go down behind the driver's side pillar (they are anchored to the fiberglass with weld-mounts and zip ties so no rattling), and thence under the couch which is where my battery bank is (I moved it). But they could just as easily have continued down into the original battery compartment.

A previous owner had an amplifier above and endless wires running from the driver's stereo up into that storage area, it is a lot, and a although well done for the time, no longer necessary and a bit of a mess - they all run through the pillars and then up into that cabinet via the small 1/2" gap between that carpeted panel and the face/doors etc - that's also where they dropped all the screws during installation, haha.

Ah, that explains it. I couldn't figure out where all these loose screws would have come from. Now I understand. How annoying when you drive.

I've put the stereo wiring back to factory, and found out that they ran the whole kit from the main battery, not the coach, so there's that,

Yes. A number of us have changed that so that the stereo is powered from the house circuits. That way the Start battery doesn't run down. I think BobW started the trend. Here is a thread that discusses it, FWIW:

viewtopic.php?p=13975

I'll probably just run new surface mount wires for the inverter that I wanted to put up into that cabinet, especially since they need a path to the coach battery drawer. I was HOPING to use the existing wires that the amplifier used to run the new inverter, but when I saw that it was hooked to the engine battery, wah wah, no go, haha.

OK, I see. Couple of thoughts that may or may not apply:

1) It's a bit of a pain -- but not that hard -- to remove the driver's side pillar cover. Then you'd have easy access for new inverter wires. There's a thread on it from back in the day (I copied someone's example when I did mine).

Here is a thread that talks about it, with photos:

viewtopic.php?p=3118

2) That's a long run for inverter wires, so unless it's a small inverter (or maybe it was a huge amp and has huge wires) you might have needed to run new wires anyway. I have my inverter like two feet from the batteries and the wires are still gigantic (due to voltage drop otherwise).

Happy project-ing

[Rhythmtone]

Thanks for the info!

The inverter would only be 300-500 watts - I just want to be able to watch TV when it gets dark early, while boondocking, and maybe charge a laptop, there's nothing else I need it for. I've considered a 12v TV but they don't seem that great, and far less choices.

The old amplifier wires are 10 AWG, but it's moot because they go to the wrong battery - due to practicality and cost, I was going to go with 8 AWG.

Any input is appreciated, I've read every thread on the subject of inverters, but specific replies are always nice.

Thanks,
Dave

[Blue~Go]

The inverter would only be 300-500 watts - I just want to be able to watch TV when it gets dark early, while boondocking, and maybe charge a laptop, there's nothing else I need it for. I've considered a 12v TV but they don't seem that great, and far less choices.

Okay, I see.

Any input is appreciated, I've read every thread on the subject of inverters, but specific replies are always nice.

Okay, so let's see. It sounds like you are thinking to put the inverter up in the overhead by the TV? Then just plug the TV into it (small inverter with receptacle built in).

So it's all about voltage drop, the amps you will carry, and the length of the DC wires.

If you are going to supply it from the house bank, then run the wires up the pillar to the overhead (or similar), then that would be say 9' of wire, one way.

500 watts drawing from 12 volts (we'll assume for now your batteries are over 12 volts and not sagging down) is about 40 amps. For the full 500 watts you would add on around 15% more amps to cover inefficiency in conversion (say inverter is 85% efficient) but let's say you are not maxing out the inverter for now.

So if you use 8AWG for that run (eg), then that's 4.3% voltage drop. So meaning if your batteries (if you have some form of lead acid house batts) are at say 12.3 volts, then the voltage by the time it gets to the inverter would be 11.8 volts. If your batteries are lower, then of course lower. Inverters do start to get cranky if the input voltage gets too low.

But so.... how many watts does the TV draw? Smaller inverters have smaller tare loads (amps they draw even just on standby) which is nice. Also too, if you are not drawing near to 500 watts the calcs would be different. Say the TV draws 250 watts, everything could be smaller/less, which is simpler. Do you have a TV already in mind? If so it should list watts on the back or in the specs. What does it need?

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Another potential option:

PS: Another possibility is to mount the inverter down by the LVD (between couch and driver's seat). As long as it won't get covered by stuff and get too hot. It needs ventilation. But if you did that, your DC wire run would be MUCH shorter and simpler. Much less voltage drop for same size inverter (because you are making the longer run with AC wire at higher voltage, not DC wire at lower voltage).

This would mean running the TV's own AC plug cord down to the inverter, presuming it is long enough. But then too, might actually be nicer for plugging in laptop? Down below vs. cord draping up to cabinet?

If your theoretcial 500 watt inverter only had 4' of DC wire running to it, then the same 8AWG would have 1.9% voltage drop at essentially the full output. Much better.

[Rhythmtone]

Thanks for the advice,
You make a good point about the inverter location - I initially wanted it up top, to have better access to it, but near the LVD is a good idea.

I will have to think about the most elegant solution - I was going to plug into the inverter directly rather than install a new AC outlet, hence the desire to keep all the stuff above, rather than having a TV adapter dangling or sticking out somewhere exposed. Most of the inverters that are reasonable in cost don't have posts for the AC, they just want you to plug in, not create a new AC outlet somewhere else, so I'm on the fence about that ATM - obviously I could do it, but I'm debating if it's safe and "elegant" with a plug-based inverter, rather than one that uses bare posts and expects an AC wire run. I considered a whole-house 1500w inverter/charger from trip-lite, with auto switch, which would patch into the existing AC wiring throughout the coach, like my Roadtrek had, but it's too expensive and would require too much modification to make it work, I just went with the updated charger, PD-4645VL, yet to be installed.

The TVs in mind are all 100 watts or less, and the laptops also pull 65-100, I suppose on the rare occasion of watching TV and charging 2 laptops, I could get close to 300, so I was thinking 500. I had the perfect 27" LG TV in mind, but it doesn't have Bluetooth, ugh. TV will be centrally mounted on the center cabinet door, if it helps to visualize the wire runs, etc. - to me it made sense to keep everything above as a sort of AV cabinet, as originally designed, but you make a good point about the inverter location.

So that's the saga, I'll update as I progress,
Thanks again

Thanks again, the older posts of yours have been invaluable to plan this, now I just have to execute, haha.

[Blue~Go]

All good points on your part.

So first some noodling, and then near the bottom what I think might be a good plan (see how it strikes you):

I agree that while it may be tempting to "wire" an outlet on the plug-in type inverter... meh. I have a (rarely used) 1500 watt inverter in my Chinook and it is also the type that has outlets right on it. Hence, I just plug whatever it is right in to the inverter -- it's not mingled with my Chinook built in outlets.

In my case I have mine bolted to the inside of that short, fabric covered board that is the "front face" of the couch base. The inverter itself is on the inside of that "wall," under the couch. But for your wire runs, the LVD area sounds better.

Thoughts: Would the TV's own cord be long enough to just come down and plug into the inverter? That's what I was envisioning. Tho... how to not have a dangling cord. Not sure I'd want to encase a cord like that inside the pillar cover but that would certainly get it out of the way. But maybe better would be if you put something like one of those adhesive plastic cord runners right in the corner? Or near the seatbelt area somehow? So not behind the pillar.

The larger the inverter generally the larger the tare load (which only counts if you are going to leave it on when not watching TV). What about two inverters? Both small. One for the TV, which you could then put up in the overhead, and then run the DC wires up behind the pillar "permanently." (Benefit is you could do this with smaller wire if, say, it was a 200 watt inverter and not a 500 watt. I'd be happy to run a calculation for the best wire size.) Then the other inverter could be one you use for for your laptops and could potentially be in a more convenient spot?

Next thought: Depending on how much power your laptops take, because "cigarette" lighter sockets are only good for so much. But my laptop charges on about 65 watts, and when my DC charging cord died (grrrr), I started using a "portable" 200 watt inverter that just plugs into a cigarette outlet in the rig. That said, can you charge your laptops with DC? That's more efficient if you can. I've always charged all my laptops straight from DC. (Only reason I haven't gone back to DC on my current computer is it has a weird, proprietary plug and there are very few/unreliable DC adapters for it.)

So in summary of this one idea that I kinda like but that may or may not suit you:

1) Smallest possible inverter up in cabinet with TV. Run DC wires up behind pillar, but since inverter smaller, cable size will be manageable*.

2) Either another inverter, possibly one that plugs into a cigarette lighter, OR, much better, DC charging cord for your laptops.

*I ran the same calculation as yesterday (9' of DC cabling up to the inverter) but with a 200 watt inverter running at full blast (also counted it at 85% efficiency) and now with 8AWG cable you get only around 2% voltage drop. This is totally acceptable (and sounds like you may not use all 200 watts in which case even better).

[Rhythmtone]

Thanks for the reply,
The weather just went bad here in Northern California, so I'm on pause for a minute - I know we're talking mostly indoors stuff here, but I get in and out a lot when working - also, I'm waiting for some stuff to arrive.

These are good ideas, thanks - I'm thinking a compromise might be up above, but on the left side, near the pillar - that way the more permanent TV plug will be hidden, without being too far away. I also wanted it up above to use the old amplifier negative as a ground - it goes to the "chassis" in the door panel area, and it's good quality 10AWG.

Finally I wanted the option of switching to factory AC outlet on shore shower which is up above where the VCR used to be (right side) - I know this doesn't really matter that much, but then the inverter fan can be off, etc, with just a manual patch, or if I get really fancy, a directional switch that will choose which source will power the TV uses.

[Blue~Go]

Understood on the weather.

If you're going to be using 10AWG as part of the CD circuit, then try to get the very smallest inverter that will do the job of just the TV. Even a 300 watt inverter (if you use its capacity) would have a lot of voltage drop with say an 8' run of 10AWG. That's a bit on the small side, really.

(IOW, it would be better to run a larger wire pair.)

Here's to the weather improving and your stuff arriving