Chinook RV

Just got back to reality. Getting one whole bar of 4G is a bit jarring after a few days of nothing. YESSSSS, I'm still alive family/friends.

Performance-wise, the refrigerator has been great. In the winter of course I get less solar, but there's also less demand on the refrigerator.

Right now it's 9 a.m., I'm very far north, and I'm at ~13.5 volts with the fridge running. There's ice cream in the freezer. 

I can do a handful of things to improve the system, like clean up my crusty terminals, tilt the panels (nah), and get a better controller (yeah).

To be honest, one of the biggest challenges is preventing the refrigerator from getting too cold and freezing my lettuce and turning it to snot. But the thermostat is consistent whether it's 30 or 100F. Pretty incredible, all things considered. 
 
My main regret is that I arranged the solar controller and inverter and all the other stuff in a very compact manner which means I would have to redo a lot of things if I can't find exact replacement components in the event of a failure. But I'm going to be redoing it here in a few months anyway because I want to change from PWM parallel to MPPT series. Plus I have two brand new panels in storage that have been flirting with my plans.

I really want to make a battery tray that bolts to the chassis frame rail so I can use the generator compartment for storing even more crap, but that's just talk at the moment.

I'll be quick to admit that DC is more efficient, and the marine stuff is built to a higher standard, as well as being more plug-n-play. But my setup is much cheaper, more readily available, and it works great. It does what I need, plus I have 110v available as a byproduct.

Using a residential fridge in a mobile environment required attaching one of those child proof things on the door, and telescoping spring rods in front of the shelves for fiddles. And securely mounting the fridge required some doing.

A few more things. The project required a lot of modification and experimentation and some fabrication/carpentry. I just want it to be clear that it's not a slam dunk ordeal. So "don't try this at home, kids."

For us the refrigerator is the 3rd most important item in the Chinook (after comfortable beds and a flush toilet) so I've tested it thoroughly.

[BTW, for larger, more demanding 110v duties I have a separate inverter with alligator clips that go directly to the crank battery, then I just run the engine. Blue does/did something similar, so credit goes directly to him for this idea.]

[BTW BTW, a propane fillup lasts forever! But I never used my stock gas fridge, so that might be an exaggeration.]

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, Pete. This is a great thread chock full of info and photos.  

Scott wrote: July 30th, 2020, 12:44 pm Performance-wise, the refrigerator has been great. In the winter of course I get less solar, but there's also less demand on the refrigerator.

Right now it's 9 a.m., I'm very far north, and I'm at ~13.5 volts with the fridge running. There's ice cream in the freezer. 

I can do a handful of things to improve the system, like clean up my crusty terminals, tilt the panels (nah), and get a better controller (yeah).

To be honest, one of the biggest challenges is preventing the refrigerator from getting too cold and freezing my lettuce and turning it to snot. But the thermostat is consistent whether it's 30 or 100F. Pretty incredible, all things considered. 
 
My main regret is that I arranged the solar controller and inverter and all the other stuff in a very compact manner which means I would have to redo a lot of things if I can't find exact replacement components in the event of a failure. But I'm going to be redoing it here in a few months anyway because I want to change from PWM parallel to MPPT series. Plus I have two brand new panels in storage that have been flirting with my plans.

I'll be quick to admit that DC is more efficient, and the marine stuff is built to a higher standard, as well as being more plug-n-play. But my setup is much cheaper, more readily available, and it works great. It does what I need, plus I have 110v available as a byproduct.

Using a residential fridge in a mobile environment required attaching one of those child proof things on the door, and telescoping spring rods in front of the shelves for fiddles. And securely mounting the fridge required some doing.

A few more things. The project required a lot of modification and experimentation and some fabrication/carpentry. I just want it to be clear that it's not a slam dunk ordeal. So "don't try this at home, kids."

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, Pete. This is a great thread chock full of info and photos.  

Glad to hear your system is still working well. Could you provide some more details on what to look for in a 110v fridge? Most of the ones I see now apparently have the condensor coils in the side and top walls as they want several inches of clearance. I assume yours has the condensor in the back??? What make/model fridge do you have and do you know if it is still available? A few other details would be helpful: inverter power, wiring, battery requirements etc. Also, how much solar do you have? Pictures of your final install would be great too.
Thanks.

I selected this particular fridge primarily for its dimensions. Price and availability and Energy Star were all motivators as well. The coils are in the side walls. Couldn't tell ya the exact model. I got it 4 years ago at Home Depot. There's a few inches of clearance on the sides, and the bottom is totally open (not on a shelf), and the original upper refrigerator vent is still in place. Ventilation is not an issue. The inverter pulls 7 watts in standby, and about ~50w total when the fridge is going, depending on voltage coming in.

The inverter is 1000w, the wiring is as fat as I could fit (I can't remember gauge numbers, sorry), I have 2x100w panels.

Battery requirements? How do you mean?

I've posted pictures in this thread I believe. You can also kind of see what I did in the photo in the air conditioner thread.

Scott wrote: August 1st, 2020, 9:21 am I selected this particular fridge primarily for its dimensions. Price and availability and Energy Star were all motivators as well. The coils are in the side walls. Couldn't tell ya the exact model. I got it 4 years ago at Home Depot. There's a few inches of clearance on the sides, and the bottom is totally open (not on a shelf), and the original upper refrigerator vent is still in place. Ventilation is not an issue. The inverter pulls 7 watts in standby, and about ~50w total when the fridge is going, depending on voltage coming in.

The inverter is 1000w, the wiring is as fat as I could fit (I can't remember gauge numbers, sorry), I have 2x100w panels.

Battery requirements? How do you mean?

I've posted pictures in this thread I believe. You can also kind of see what I did in the photo in the air conditioner thread.

Good that the sidewall coil fridge works. The impression I got from the fridge manuals was that more clearance and ventilation would be needed than might be available in the vehicle enclosure. As I recall 50w is about what the 12v fridges pull if I am looking at the specs correctly, so that's good.

I have two 235AH 6 volt batteries, which I think is what you have so that should be good.

Got the pictures now. So I think I understand what you did. Thanks.

Note: I logged on today and Peteco had sent me a PM with some fridge questions so some of this will be a repeat for him, but he suggested I pop in here as well.

peteco wrote: July 28th, 2020, 6:31 am Hey BG, I really appreciate the information. You have peaked my interest now on the Vitrifrigo C130. I like the remote compressor setup. It looks like the freezer is bigger and more useable than on the NovaKool 5810, though fridge space would be less. How has the freezer worked out for you from a food storage standpoint? Can a gallon jug of milk fit in the fridge?

The two main reasons I chose the Vitrifrigo over similar competitors were the remote compressor (gives you an extra 15 liters of fridge space) and the full width freezer that is larger than many other same-size units.

For this size unit, the freezer is huge (but it's all relative). I'm very happy with that. I do have an 18 liter portable that I could run as a deep freeze if I wanted to but I haven't needed that much space yet.

As far as a gallon of milk, only if you slid it in on its side (or made modifications to the shelves). I tend to buy the "cardboard" 1/2 gallon cartons and I keep them on their sides because they fit more efficiently that way. Modern cartons (with the round white screw cap) don't seem to leak.

I have made a shelf mod. The shelves come with "double height" fiddles which are quite tall and make the already small shelves seem even smaller. I used a Dremel and cut off the top "rung" of the fiddle. (Spray painted the cut edge and then a white plastic cap from closet shelving fit perfectly over it.) We made a more radical mod on my buddy's (same model) shelves. He cut the fiddle off completely and then we friction fit a small piece of aluminum U-channel over the edge (no sagging). It pulls off if needed to clean. I haven't decided yet whether I want to keep the half-height fiddle or cut it off as he did (COVID, so no driving to speak of to test it).

With the remote compressor model the area on the bottom is twice as deep, and that is where the crisper drawers are (so twice as much crisper drawer space).

The door shelves could be better. They are kind of sleek and rounded so the ends aren't as capacious as they could be. The Nova Kool does better in that regard but on balance I liked the V better so that's what I got.

peteco wrote: July 28th, 2020, 6:31 amAny other food storage thoughts in general, and compared to the DP150 that you have seen?

The DP150 is definitely larger. Basically the refrigerator is the entire "130" section, and then there is a separate freezer on top that is about 40% larger than the 130 freezer and has a separate door. And it would fit just fine in the Chinook. It only comes with a built in compressor, and also only with a "sticky outy" door. I do really like the remote compressor and the flush door on my 130. Nice and sleek in the hallway. (Door is flush with wall.)

The DP 150 would project into the hallway a bit more than the 130, but still less than the original absorption Concourse refrigerator. And there would be room for a bit of storage above the 150, but with the 130 I have a counter height space (not kitchen counter height, but about 45" off the floor) that I use ALL the time. Great sight lines to the door window and great "set down by the door" space. I do also have three storage shelves that come out about 6" from the outside wall.

I'm sure I could find ways to fill the 150 -- and for some people it might be a necessity -- but if I could wave a magic wand now I'd stay with the 130 for me. If I needed more space sometimes I do have an 18 liter portable that fits on the floor between the front seats (haven't used it since I installed the 130 though as I haven't needed to; but I was using a 50 liter unit before which had no freezer so....). The small portable between the seats might be handy on road trips though (run as a fridge for drinks and snacks).

peteco wrote: July 28th, 2020, 6:31 amWhat kind of freezer/fridge temps do you typically run in hot weather? I like the freezer to be in single digits, which my Dometic still does (at least when the control system doesn't flake out, even though I have the Dinosaur board).

While I'm at it, what has been you power usage, again in hot weather?

Comparing to the 150, while the "separate freezer door" (vs. the flap type) is a plus..... one downside is that you don't really have any control over the freezer/refrigerator temp ratio. My buddy would basically set his 150 as cold as possible (i.e. not freezing stuff in the fridge) to keep ice cream cold. I'd say it worked, but there may have been times it didn't (you only have one compressor and one controller for both freezer and fridge).

Ironically, the "less deluxe" integrated freezer may have a slight advantage here. The outer walls of the freezer are the cooling coils, and then coolth spills down to cool the refrigerator. There is a flattish plastic divider tray (not typically used for storage) that divides the freezer from the refrigerator.

I'm running mine as it came, and with the top shelf of the refrigerator at 32º (I like cold drinks), the freezer is at about 15º. That's okay for what I have in there now, but I can imagine wanting the freezer colder. Remember my buddy with the DP150? Well he has changed RV's and now has a C130, just like mine. We installed it pretty much exactly the same as mine, same amount of insulation, etc. He wanted to keep rock hard ice cream, so he wanted more of a spread of temps. He put one layer of Reflectix in the little tray, and achieved refrigerator at 38º - freezer at 6º. (He tried 2 sheets of Reflectix and the spread was greater but freezer was "too" cold.) So I'd say based on that there is some adjustability in the ratio of freezer temp to fridge temp (which might be an advantage over the DP 150 which you can't really change).

I have been very pleased with the power usage, and with the tweaks you can make to the Danfoss/Secop compressor (if you want to).

Temps have ranged from about 60 day/45 night to 85 day/60 night (in full sun). I would say I'm probably using about 30 amp hours per day. This is great as I think my 50 liter (vs. this is 130 liters with a freezer) portable with the same compressor probably used about 25ah per day.

It is running at a 40% duty cycle (compressor ON 40% of the time), and uses around 3 amps when running.

So I said above it is adjustable and I will give you an example. This would apply to any Danfoss/Secop based BD35 or BD50 AFAIK. So the compressor can run at any speed between 2000 rpm and 3500 rpm. This is controlled by a resistor. The mfgr kind of guesses at what resistor to put in since they don't know exactly how you will use the unit. The slower you can run the RPM and still achieve your coldness goals the better. (But if, for example, you want to come to a completely warm empty refrigerator on Friday night, load it up with warm groceries, and have it cool down quickly then you might need to run it at higher RPM.)

My unit came with the resistor that runs the refrigerator at 3,000 rpm. I don't tend to do that "load it up with warm food" weekender style, so I rigged it up to the lowest RPM and tested. It's quieter, uses less power, and my duty cycle is the same (but with longer periods of on and off). So it was a total win for me. I wired up a little Y harness so with the flip of a switch I can go back to 3,000 rpm. Figured I might want to do that in very hot weather.

They do make little resistor boards so you can adjust to all of the RPM levels, but I don't think I need that with the 2,000/3,000 choice. It's an option though.

Another mod I made (totally optional) is that I replaced the run of the mill computer fan it came with, with a better/quieter/better bearings Noctua fan. Pretty easy swap. Not necessary tho.

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The one thing that bugs me vs. my Dometic CF portable is the old-fashioned dial thermostat. I got spoiled with the digital one! With the digital the temperature shows on the outside of the box, in digits, and you can set it from outside also (going up or down by degrees). Then I put in my "better" refrigerator and, wham, back to the old-fashioned mechanical thermostat. It works okay, but it's only a dial and it's way back in the fridge by the back wall. Meh.

One solution is the Isotherm ITC electronic control (which you can put on the V), which basically mimics the digital thermostat from a portable type. There are also some "smart" controllers that manage the RPM (Merlin). However as an experiment, we both bought $15 "Inkbird" digital thermostats from Amazon. I don't have mine hooked up yet, but my buddy does and loves it. In addition to controlling and seeing the temp from outside (vs. digging to the back of the box), you can set hysteresis if you want to (the amount of swing up or down from the preset temp before it kicks on). I'll be doing that soon.

Another annoyance is that when you get the external compressor Vitrifrigo, there are no quick connects on the compressor. For me that was a pain because I was set on putting the compressor up in the old roof chimney area (I fiberglassed the lower vent shut since that was always a leak magnet). Maybe if I did it again I would install (or have installed) some quick connects. Not as much of an issue with my second choice compressor location which would have been under the stove in the wasted area just aft of the wheelwell. But now that it's installed, I like that I was able to use that old roof vent area (which has never leaked -- good design). My location is completely externally vented - both intake and exhaust (it's just heat though, no combustion). The under the stove location I would have just had an internal intake and exhaust. You gain some or lose some depending on if it's summer or winter (heat going out vs. heat staying in).

I absolutely love the larger hallway, sight lines the door, entry counter, and outboard storage. Those are all more valuable to me than a larger refrigerator, but that's a very individual choice.

A last note is that I spent the extra (I think it was $100?) and got the AC/DC model vs DC-only. Same compressor and everything, but just it will flip over to run on AC if AC is present. Technically not necessary as you can plug in the rig, charge your batteries, and run it off battery - hence using AC in a way; but I have used it a few times and it has come in handy. For example a couple of months ago I was changing around my DC distribution system, and I had purposely gone to an RV park and plugged in. I was able to completely take the DC system apart and my refrigerator hummed happily along on AC power. That's not very often though, so it would be an easy way to save a little money (by getting the DC only model). You could also change it later if you wanted to buy a new control module.

I just got a 2001 chinook concourse, in the process of gutting it. First thought convert refrig to AC and 12volt, but smaller and try to make a continous countertop from cook top to the closet, has anyone done that and can share photos? What is a good frig?

Second removing the vent hood and microwave over the stove, what can i do to replace the tank level monitor that is on the vent hood?

thanks
John
Houston Tx

You can try to make a box and mount the guts and panel on it, or find some empty to relocate the monitor.

BettyWhite! wrote: October 12th, 2021, 1:15 pm I just got a 2001 chinook concourse, in the process of gutting it. First thought convert refrig to AC and 12volt, but smaller and try to make a continous countertop from cook top to the closet, has anyone done that and can share photos? What is a good frig?

Second removing the vent hood and microwave over the stove, what can i do to replace the tank level monitor that is on the vent hood?

thanks
John
Houston Tx

https://www.garnetinstruments.com/rv-shop/products/

thanks