Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble strip

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1998chinook
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Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble strip

Post by 1998chinook »

Just recently completed two road trips. Both about 1,600 miles. First trip was to Boulder CO.

Here are a couple pics from Boulder and Rocky Mtn National Park.

Image

Image


During the return trip home on our second trip, the front end developed a shake as if I were driving over a washboard. The shake above 60 MPH felt like I was holding onto a jack hammer. Once home I crawled under the front end and a visual inspection didn't reveal any clues.

I'm guessing one of the following:
1) wheel out of balance
2) front end out of alignment
3) front tire issue.

I have an appointment Wednesday at NTB.
Manitou
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by Manitou »

Like that grey/sliver color.. If I had gotten that year, I would have been shooting for that color.
As for the front end, when I had a bunch of work done, they found one of the shocks had busted the top bolt. It was just floundering around in there.
When was the last time you got new shocks?
1998chinook
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by 1998chinook »

I've only had it a year, so I'm not sure the last time the shocks were replaced. I had Hellwig sway bars put on last year and had the suspension checked. I'll go out an check for that later this afternoon.

Our second trip was to Chicago. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't something like that. Those Illinois roads were horrible.
Concourse
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by Concourse »

What are the date codes on each of the 6 tires? Also, have a tire shop test balance and out-of-round off all 6 tires. The newest machines can spot out of round very accurately.

I had a brand new Michelin tire (an inner rear with purchase year date code) that was out of round. Vibrated the coach badly. Also had a low mileage 4 year old low mileage General front tire start separating internally with nothing visibly wrong but had to keep it at 60mph or below on the way to the tire shop because it was jackhammering soooooo baldy. I thought it threw a wheel weight and had the balance checked. The tire shop said it was out of round.
2004 Chinook Concourse (Sold and missed)
1998chinook
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Joined: August 1st, 2014, 2:32 pm

Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by 1998chinook »

Concourse wrote:What are the date codes on each of the 6 tires? Also, have a tire shop test balance and out-of-round off all 6 tires. The newest machines can spot out of round very accurately.

I had a brand new Michelin tire (an inner rear with purchase year date code) that was out of round. Vibrated the coach badly. Also had a low mileage 4 year old low mileage General front tire start separating internally with nothing visibly wrong but had to keep it at 60mph or below on the way to the tire shop because it was jackhammering soooooo baldy. I thought it threw a wheel weight and had the balance checked. The tire shop said it was out of round.
Just got back from NTB, the front passenger tire had a bulge causing it to be out of balance. The year of the tire was 2011.

I think I am going to replace four tires with the Michelin XPS. The two in the front, and two in the back. Upon inspection the inner tires on the rear are Goodyear with a date of 2013. They look to be in good shape. I have to order the Michelins the retailer didn't have them in stock. The service tech suggested putting the Michelins on the inner rear and moving the Goodyears to the outside position.
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Blue~Go
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by Blue~Go »

I'm not sure if it is the same, but I've had something like this ever since I got the rig. I never drove over 55 during the test drive (with tires that had good tread but were six years old), and then right away I got new tires (Michelin LTX M/S2). At any rate, I then did get a chance to drive faster and immediately noticed a sort of "judder" that became noticeable at around 60 mph, and got worse between 60-70.

It seemed like it was in the front end, but I was never sure. I could definitely feel it in the steering wheel, but then also I could feel it in the seat, and I could see things like the passenger seat back (when unoccupied) shaking in time to the "beat." Ugh! It does not change if I put the rig in neutral at speed, nor does braking affect it. I think it might reduce somewhat over 75mph, but then I don't drive that fast on a regular basis.

I have done a number of things that haven't yet fixed it, so I'm still not sure what it is. I do, however, know more about what it isn't :? Maybe the same as yours? Here is what I have done. Most of these things were for other reasons or as a part of other jobs, but in my mind was always "will this fix the shake?"

0) Got six new tires just at the time of buying rig. "Found" shake upon driving home (first time over 55 mph).

1) Got four new shocks, Koni FSD. Also had wheel bearings re-packed, brake caliper slides lubed, etc. Plus general check-over and other unrelated maintenance. Nice improvement in handling, but no change in shake.

2) Had all six tires and wheels removed, dis-mounted/re-mounted/re-balanced as a part of having extended (Tireman) stems installed. Found one bent rim on rear and replaced it with used/better rim; also found out that spare rim was bent (so did not swap it in), and that front left rim was very slightly bent (also found out that this is quite common with Ford steel rims. Maybe it's more accurate to say they are "untrue" rather than "bent," as it's not like something caused by a hit or etc). Shake still there, so front/left rim was on my mind for next possible culprit.

3) Had drive shaft out as a part of beefing up transmission (because it was removed in order to remove transmission). No change when it was put back (not that I expected any).

4) Had entire new front end put in from 2014 van. The main reason was for the super-beefy brakes, but since all of the front end (except for springs, wheels, and tires) is new, I can pretty much eliminate any of those components. Also put on beefier front anti-sway bar, plus beefy rear anti-sway bar, not that I expected that to affect the shake. Had run-of-the-mill alignment done (this is necessary with new front end regardless). Shake lives! :x

5) Had left front wheel and tire removed and checked at shop with Hunter Road Force balancer. The fact that the rim is slightly untrue was verified, but with the Road Force balancing the tire and wheel as a unit were brought to well within spec for overall balance/shape. Shake still there!

6) At the same time as #5, I added a small steering stabilizer* (Safe-T-Plus), and changed the rear to a milder anti-sway bar and slightly softer (but adjustable) shocks (for better ride). Also had super pro alignment done (Henderson's Line-Up - they are specialists). No change in shake. Now this is getting annoying!

7)....? I haven't really decided what my next move is. Possibilities:

a) I did buy two new (reconditioned) Ford steel rims (which are supposed to be truly true) and may have those put on along with two new front tires (not that the front tires are done for yet, as they only have around 15,000 miles on them, but the spare is ancient, so I could take the best of the two existing front tires and make it the spare, plus have two BRAND NEW front tires AND rims, both Hunter Road Force balanced, which should eliminate that from the equation (plus make the spare more viable).

b) On the other hand, maybe four Alcoa aluminum rims? They are supposed to be super true, although there are a few negatives: One is they are expensive and I don't have any problem with the looks of the simulators; two is that the extended valve stems don't mate perfectly with them (I'd have to have them bored out slightly); and three is that I'd still have two steel rims anyway (inner rears).

c) Or maybe it's time to see a driveline specialist. I'm beginning to suspect it is either driveline related or perhaps something bent in the way of a rear hub? I do feel the shake in the wheel, but then I'm not sure that means it is in the front end, since I can also see "general shakery" in the intererior, and I have a new front end.

I'll probably do a) or c) or a combination thereof, but haven't decided for sure yet. I guess to look at the bright side, I'm not likely to get a speeding ticket ;)

BG

* Reason I say "small steering stabilizer" is that when I had the complete rig evaluated at Henderson's, they said it really didn't have any major faults, so nothing was really "necessary." Still, I like a super crisp handling rig, and I had found that the new, super-beefy rear anti-sway bar caused the rear to be too harsh ("hopping" over bumps that I wouldn't even notice before). But I liked the good handling! Ultimately I went with a medium sized rear anti-sway bar (there is none in stock configuration) and slightly softer/adjustable Koni shocks on the rear. Then I tried the recommended size steering stabilizer on the front. Well it was just overkill. Yes, it did make the rig feel like it was on rails on a straight stretch of freeway, but driving on a twisty highway was torture (too hard to steer) and it was similar just driving around town (turns). So I went with a smaller stabilizer of the same brand - one that was meant for a Toyota Dolphin, I believe. I would actually like one just between the two, but they don't currently make that size (however they may in future).
1999 Concourse
Concourse
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by Concourse »

When I got new tires last year (Michelin LTX MS2 LT225/75R/16) one was out of round from the factory. I found this out will travelling. There was vibration at highway speeds. I had a Ford dealer balance and check all 6 tires because I couldn't tell where the vibration was coming from (turned out to be an inner rear). They had just gotten a new balancing machine (the previous day) that was more accurate than the old one. It showed the out of round tire. They weren't a Michelin dealer so couldn't replace the tire. I went to a Michelin dealer and they too had just received a new Hunter "Road Force" balancing machine. They didn't have the tire in stock and I was on a schedule but they were able to slip the tire around the rim to match the balance issue of the tire with the run out of the rim enough to make the difference and the tire was no problem after that.
2004 Chinook Concourse (Sold and missed)
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Blue~Go
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by Blue~Go »

I have always wondered if it was the tires causing my 65mph+ shake, but unfortunately I never drove that fast on the test drive with the old tires (couldn't really, due to the location). By the time I first went that fast I had the new Michelins on.

That said, between then and now I have had all six tires off and balanced again, plus the left front (which was the rim that showed as a bit off). Like yours, the left front balanced out just fine on the Hunter Road Force machine once the tire was moved around so as to spread out any flaw.

But, I probably should have them all done again on a Hunter Road Force balancer just to be sure. And I do have the two new/reconditioned rims just waiting in a box, so might as well use them. It's irritating, as my previous E-250 rode like silk, so I know it's possible. Plus, I have all the other handling tweaked to "fun/sporty RV," so that makes the shake all the more noticeable, like one small fly in the soup.

BG

PS: When I was getting the extended stems put on, and the fellow found the first bent (or rather, "untrue") rim, I was all "but... how? This rig was barely driven and clearly babied!" Then they found a second, although slightly less untrue one. Then we found the spare wasn't true either! I was somewhat beside myself. Then I started calling around for used rims. Found out the "untrue rim" situation is quite common on these rims, such that it took me quite a few calls to find a usable one. Of course, as I found out through the fellow with the Hunter Road Force machine, it's still possible to balance the rim/tire combination oftentimes. Still though, it's unappealing! I always kind of wondered when people would get Alcoa rims and then say "Oh it just RIDES better." I thought maybe they were somewhat rationalizing the cost of what seemed like a beauty item (not that there is anything wrong with a beauty item). But maybe it's true simply because they finally had (at least four) true rims!
1999 Concourse
1998chinook
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by 1998chinook »

Just a follow-up. I replaced 4 of the 6 tires with Michelin Rib Tires and this fixed the problem.

NTB identified my passenger front tire had a bulge and was extremely out of balance.
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Blue~Go
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Re: Front end shake as if driving over a washboard/rumble st

Post by Blue~Go »

Thanks for the follow-up and glad to hear you have a smooth-riding machine now!

Guess I had better hie myself to the tire shop.
1999 Concourse
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