Gone to the Dark… no… Gone to the Lithium Side!

[ski2ways]

Since my wife Ann and I purchased our 2000 Chinook Concourse last October, we knew that we would have to replace the Magnatek 7345 converter/charger, because of its old technology of single stage charging, which if left charging would overcharge our battery bank and ooze out electrolyte from the lead-acid batteries. We knew that many Chinook owners on this forum swapped out the old converter/charger and replaced it with a Progressive Dynamics, PD4645 converter/charger that simply is a remove and replace job. Thank goodness for Progressive Dynamics.

Well, we thought about it, and decided to replace our Magnatek 7345 with a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger BUT we went all the way and got a PD4645Li, which is specific for lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. In doing that we knew that we’d have to also replace our battery isolator (our Chinook has, actually now had, a continuous duty solenoid, that a prior owner installed to replace the original Sure Power battery separator), the solar charge controller as well as the LVD, which has really served its purpose, among other things.

Having made that decision, we also decided to bring the battery bank inside, underneath the couch like many of you have done and pull the starter battery cable and generator start cable from underneath the chassis up into the inside, rip out the LVD, cut the 8 AWG wire that originally went to the converter/charger up the pillar around the bend down to the side by the shower, ala voltage drop extraordinaire, and run a 6 AWG cable back to the converter/charger along the base of the couch on the floor. So instead of 20+ feet the cable runs around 7 feet. Since we were planning to put the batteries underneath the couch, we also needed to run a negative cable from the battery bank back down under the floor to the chassis frame of our Ford F350. So, two red positive wires came up and one black negative wire went down.

Further, we really wanted to get a good solar array system to replace the 50 watt Siemen 20-year old panel with lots of watts – why not 400 watts! And let’s go with smart technology for managing the charge of the solar panels as well as a smart battery monitor which would replace the need for the LVD plus do so much more… Smart being a Bluetooth app that is installed on a cell phone to manage the devices. Not being done, we also wanted to be true boondockers and not have to start our noisy generator to charge up laptop, tablets, make coffee in the morning. So why not get an inverter as well?

It was a daunting task, because there is really very little real estate under the couch to put all the stuff, so I, Jon, the electrical engineer wannabee (I am a retired Software Engineer) of our household had to come up with a very concise design. There has been a real issue with our Chinook not being fused properly, i.e., no fuse on the generator start cable, no fuse on the starter battery cable to the isolator, no fuse on wire running from the isolator to the battery bank, a 50 amp auto reset breaker for the 8 AWG wire to the converter/charger among other issues. Every RV site we looked at which had installed lithium batteries, were using big ANL fuses and a Class T fuse off the positive post of the battery bank – these are too big to fit in the space available under the couch, plus positive bus bars, negative bus bars, main battery switch and all the cabling required – oh boy what a real challenge!

Attached is the design schematic that I came up with along with photos of the results. Pretty proud of myself. Except I have no experience in anything electrical, let along DC electrical. But we are lucky to have a good friend that is an experienced electrician as well as the fact that he does van conversions to RVs now as a living. He just finished converting a Ford Van to an RV that includes lithium technology that he is selling (see Milliganvans.com). Greg is his name and boy he has been a life saver; I couldn’t have done as good of job without his expertise. Wait, I couldn’t have done it without him!

This is the list of all of major the components involved, in case someone on the forum also wants to go to the Lithium Side:
• Lithium Batteries – 2, Battle Born 100 Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle
• Converter/charger – Progressive Dynamics PD4645Li
• Battery Isolation Manager – Precision Circuits Li-BIM 225
• Smart Battery Monitor – Victron Energy BMV-712
• Solar panels, 4, 100 Watt Renogy solar panels
• Smart Solar Charge Controller – Victron Energy 100|30
• Inverter – Giandel 1200 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter
• Fuse block – LittelFuse 7-stud ZCASE fuse holder and LittelFuse ZCASE fuses that have a very similar form factor as MRBF fuses
• Solar Disconnect Switch – Walfront 2P Low-voltage DC Miniature Circuit Breaker For Solar Panels Grid System Din Rail Mount 16A

Photos of the 4 solar panels on the roof – they just fit!

Photo of the installed Li-BIM 225:

We are now ready to boondock, park at an RV Park, or anywhere else we want!

[Roly]

Great job, and presentation. I am envious of those Li batteries, of which one must have cost more than both of my 125 AH AGM's!

Regards, Roly

[chin_k]

I was about to get these 100W Renogy panels, but they listed two different width (1/2 inch difference), and that give me some hesitation. With your pictures, I think they will work well for me. I probably will get them soon.

I am looking for a battery isolation switch, and the Precision Circuits looks good. However, I really want one with the remote indicator (the original Chinook Surepower one have that capability) so I want to keep looking for the exact one I am looking for. I may end up getting a BlueSea Systems one, but not sure.

[68camaro]

Awesome job, schematic picture and write-up and , thanks.

Did you have to move out of the way or modify any of the plumbing components under the couch to get lithium battery/inverter/extras to fit?

[ski2ways]

Great job, and presentation. I am envious of those Li batteries, of which one must have cost more than both of my 125 AH AGM's!

Regards, Roly

Thanks Roly,

Oh yes the lithium batteries are not cheap. Cost us $1798 for the 2 of them. But, the Battle Born LiFeP04 100Ah lithium batteries have some advantages over lead-acid and AGMs in that they:

1) At least double the power in the same physical space;
2) Can be discharged 100%;
3) Obviously can be installed indoors like the AGM;
4) They are 1/5 the weight of lead-acid and AGM batteries;
5) Holds a charge for up to 1 year without a load;
6) Have a built-in Battery Management System;
7) Have a 10-year warranty;
8) Are designed and assembled in Reno, NV; and,
9) Progressive Dynamics, Precision Circuits, and Victron Energy all worked with Battle Born to ensure that their components work with the Battle Born batteries.

But in order to get our return on this investment, we need to get on the road!

[ski2ways]

I was about to get these 100W Renogy panels, but they listed two different width (1/2 inch difference), and that give me some hesitation. With your pictures, I think they will work well for me. I probably will get them soon.

I am looking for a battery isolation switch, and the Precision Circuits looks good. However, I really want one with the remote indicator (the original Chinook Surepower one have that capability) so I want to keep looking for the exact one I am looking for. I may end up getting a BlueSea Systems one, but not sure.

Hey Chin,

Thanks for the reply. The Renogy panels that we installed are the compact version. Their actual dimensions are 19 9/16 inches wide by 42 1/4 inches long. Renogy appears to round their dimensions up somewhat? Anyways they fit exactly on the crucial driver's side using the Renogy Z-brackets facing each end of the panels and the forward panel right up against the antenna base. I decided to not remove that base and use the huge 1 1/2 inch hole for the Gland and the 10AWG wires. Also, not seen is I had to use one of the Z-brackets on the side of the panel because the back panel is very close to the edge of the bathroom vent. See these photos of the back panel on the driver's side:

I do miss some sort of indicator that the isolator is doing it's job. I have been having some difficulty in testing the PC Li-BIM. I need to drain the batteries a little and then drive the RV and have my wife read the Victron Monitor to indicate that a charge is being applied.

Regards,

Jon

[ski2ways]

Awesome job, schematic picture and write-up and , thanks.

Did you have to move out of the way or modify any of the plumbing components under the couch to get lithium battery/inverter/extras to fit?

Thanks 68camaro,

I did not have to move anything out of the way, including the plumbing components. What I did do is construct a little platform over the hot and cold water lines so I could put the Victron Shunt on it, as well as run the converter/charger positive cable and the inverter positive and negative cables underneath. This is a close up of that little platform:

The other thing I had to figure out is how to place the Victron Energy MPPT Solar Charge Controller. It needed to be upright, not flat. So I built a little wall supported by 2, 1 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch pieces of wood sandwiching the wall. This wall platform is just inside the end of the couch frame so that the end panel with the wooden document holder fits right back where it supposed to be.

I put a piece of plywood to cover the carpet and the batteries were installed on top of that and they are flush right up to the original piece of wood holding the hinges that support the drop down panel so I can get in to view stuff, replace fuses, turn valves on and off, and so on...

[chin_k]

How do you switch the load on/off with the new setup? With your cell phone? I don't know if you feel it is worthwhile to bring back the coach battery switch functionality over the driver seat. But if you do, see if the following is the right accessory for the purpose:
https://www.victronenergy.com/accessori ... -off-cable

I have no experience with any of the Victron products, so I just ramble off from what I see on the links. You may need a BMI unit too, so if that is the case, it maybe not worth the extra work/complexity.

[ski2ways]

Chin,

Both the Victron Battery Monitor and the Solar Charge Controller have built-in Bluetooth. I just download the Victron Connect Application to my smart cell phone, and I can monitor the voltage etc of the batteries and the charging of the batteries by the Solar Charge Controller. Don't need anything else. The Victron Solar Charge Controller does not have a connection to the loads, only the battery bank.

I still wanted to simulate control by the Coach Battery Switch on the overhead panel, so I installed the on/off switch on the positive line to the Progressive Dynamics Converter/Charger from the battery. I also connected the old green wire originally on the LVD to the "Vout" of the switch so the green light on the overhead panel goes on when I switch it on. Of course, when I connect to shore power the light does illuminate no matter if the switch is on or off, so I do have to be mindful of switching the switch on so the Converter/Charger charges the battery bank

I do not control the Solar Charge Controller, except when I would turn off the Solar Disconnect Switch, which I will normally always leave on. I would disconnect the panels only if I want to test other things that charge the batteries, or do some work on the electricals. For example, if I do drain the batteries to see how the BIM works, I would disconnect the solar array from the charge controller and start the Ford and drive off and have my wife Ann tell me via the cell phone what the Battery Monitor is telling us about the voltage, etc. It is very sunny here in Northern CA, and my 400 Watt array would be also charging the batteries as I chug along...

I hope this makes sense. My friend Greg also wanted to know why I added the new "Coach Battery Switch" since he felt it was not necessary, but I wanted it as a safeguard. Why would I leave the loads always on to drain the battery if we are not using the RV? The TV is on standby draining the battery and the other stuff is on, like the LPG Detector, etc.

BTW: Here is a photo of the Solar Disconnect Switch, which apparently is required by code. In my case, I just used a low-voltage DC Miniature Circuit Breaker as the switch and put it inside a small distribution box:

I really, really tried to remove the pillar so I could run the PV wires down though it, but I gave up. I just got a conduit, painted it grey and ran a 10 AWG, duplex wire from the disconnect to the Solar Charge Controller. Not too elegant, but at this point only my wife and I can glare at it!

[ski2ways]

Roly, Chin and 68camero,

I decided to take a few photos of the lithium upgrade after putting the couch bottom back on. Boy what a job that was. I hope I never have to remove it again...

These photos show how everything fits tidy underneath and are reachable. One thing I should mention is that I had to search for an inverter that would fit on the aft portion of the couch. I could not be more than 6 inches wide or more than 11 1/2 inches long. The Giandel 1200 Watt Inverter fits perfectly being that it is 5.5 inches wide and 11.2 inches long. Also the batteries, of course, must fit and they do rather nicely. They are wider at the top than the bottom, so they fit flush to the drop down panel at the top, but there is little gap at the bottom.

This first photo is the aft panel replacement. I cut the top a little shorter because the original panel was scraped at the top from moving the couch down flat, so I made it shorter. A little bit more than I wanted, but alas, it will let air in/out. This shows the new "Coach Batteries Switch" and the power cable coming out from the inverter:

This is the other side of the couch with the front panel back on:

This is the inverter - fits great!

Here's the battery bank showing the fit and the braces used to hold it in as well as the little platform I made: