House battery not charging when engine is running.

[reddingnative]

Just want to say that I really appreciate all of you who have offered suggestions and given me ideas and triggered thoughts for solutions.
I have a very good portable automatic battery charger. After charging the house and engine battery for several days to the point of trickle status, I checked both batteries with a battery hydrometer. The engine battery, Interstate 3 years old, had a dead cell. The house battery, Interstate 5 years old, had inconsistent readings from 2 cells.
Today I drove to my local Interstate battery dealer and asked them to check my batteries. My findings were correct. The engine battery needed to be replaced and the house battery was on it's way out.
I decided to hang out and watch the battery technician as he began replacing the engine and house batteries. What I discovered was most interesting. Corrosion, corrosion, corrosion. All of the primary wires connecting to positive terminal of the engine battery were corroded. These wires needed to be striped back two inches to find copper wire with no signs of corrosion. I began looking at all of the battery connections. The house battery wires were corroded as well.
When the house battery was removed, I was able to see the 20 amp and both 50 amp fuses noted in my charging diagram. These are self resetting fuses. They were all obviously still working but badly corroded to the point that the terminal connections fell apart when trying to loosen the nuts.
I had the technician replace the 20 amp and both 50 amp fuses.
In addition, I noted that there was another in-line fused wire attached to the positive terminal of the house battery. I checked the fuse housing and the fuse was missing. According to my wiring diagram this wire might connect to my solar panel, I need to confirm.
Thanks to all of you I have a much better understanding of my battery charging system.

[reddingnative]

So everything is working as intended except for both batteries charging while the engine is running. It almost seems like the Emergency Start/Power momentary switch could be changed to a regular rocker switch and flipped on while driving. The solenoid used for the emergency start has a 4 gauge wire running to the coach battery. Simple solution unless my thinking is way off. Any thoughts?

[Scott]

Switching from the normally open momentary switch to a toggle would allow you combine at will, but it will also allow you to drain both batteries if you forget to switch it off. That's the beauty about activating the combing/charging circuit in Run only. Did you learn anything about the missing fuse?

[reddingnative]

Switching from the normally open momentary switch to a toggle would allow you combine at will, but it will also allow you to drain both batteries if you forget to switch it off. That's the beauty about activating the combing/charging circuit in Run only. Did you learn anything about the missing fuse?

I made another post about the missing fuse and I must have not submitted it. The missing fuse was for the solar panel on the roof. I checked the feed side of the fuse housing and it was at 14.9 volts. So I replaced the missing 10 amp fuse and checked the solar control panel inside the coach. Everything ok. The instruction manual for the solar panel and control panel do not show an inline fuse at the coach battery, only a fuse on the face of the control panel inside the coach.

Tell me more about the combing/charging circuit in Run only.

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.

[kdarling]

Reddingnative -

You might've missed my post on August 15th, 2017, 7:58 am (previous page).

In it I suggested using a blocking diode coming from ignition switch RUN power, to tie in parallel with the Boost switch relay enable connection.

add-auto-boost.png (7.15 KiB) Viewed 1508 times

That way, when the engine is running, it automatically enables the Boost relay so that the Coach Battery is charged from the alternator. But only when the engine is running. And the diode prevents the boost switch from backfeeding RUN everywhere else.

You can add a switch in line with the diode to disable alternator charging if need be. I've been trying to figure out how much current the relay takes to close, so we can figure out what $1 diode to use

But a better solution would be a smart combiner/separator, which would tie the two batteries together whenever one or the other side is actually charging... and disconnect them if either side drops too low. Bluego should be able to recommend one.

Kev

[reddingnative]

Hi and Welcome!

Just as background, the "modern" (ahem) Chinook style of electrical/charging system came in around 1997. Before that things were a bit different, and there seems to be more variation (starting in 1997 they were very consistent).

You might read some of the LONG thread by kyidletime. He had some similar problems and we worked through his system (which at the time was unrecognizable to me). Some of it we did via PM, so I'm not sure if it's "all" there, but quite a bit is.

So his rig (IIRC, it's been over a year), had some "simple" solenoids. Not the smart(er) combiner type. Right now I'm about to move campsites, so can't get too lengthy, but essentially the way to go was to just replace some of the things with more modern items (although you may decide differently). Although don't feel too bad, because even the later "modern" systems are somewhat outdated at this point. So if you do go to new components, you haven't missed anything super good from a slightly newer model (IMO).

Nothing is 100% certain, but I would be very surprised if anything "Ford" charged your house battery. In Chinooks as well as other similar RV's, that's almost always done by the RV builder adding something to make it happen (modern Sprinters and etc. may be excepted).

Ok, so which battery isolator would work for me?

[reddingnative]

Hi and Welcome!

Just as background, the "modern" (ahem) Chinook style of electrical/charging system came in around 1997. Before that things were a bit different, and there seems to be more variation (starting in 1997 they were very consistent).

You might read some of the LONG thread by kyidletime. He had some similar problems and we worked through his system (which at the time was unrecognizable to me). Some of it we did via PM, so I'm not sure if it's "all" there, but quite a bit is.

So his rig (IIRC, it's been over a year), had some "simple" solenoids. Not the smart(er) combiner type. Right now I'm about to move campsites, so can't get too lengthy, but essentially the way to go was to just replace some of the things with more modern items (although you may decide differently). Although don't feel too bad, because even the later "modern" systems are somewhat outdated at this point. So if you do go to new components, you haven't missed anything super good from a slightly newer model (IMO).

Nothing is 100% certain, but I would be very surprised if anything "Ford" charged your house battery. In Chinooks as well as other similar RV's, that's almost always done by the RV builder adding something to make it happen (modern Sprinters and etc. may be excepted).

Ok, so which battery isolator will work for me? Thanks

[reddingnative]

Reddingnative -

You might've missed my post on August 15th, 2017, 7:58 am (previous page).

In it I suggested using a blocking diode coming from ignition switch RUN power, to tie in parallel with the Boost switch relay enable connection.

add-auto-boost.png

That way, when the engine is running, it automatically enables the Boost relay so that the Coach Battery is charged from the alternator. But only when the engine is running. And the diode prevents the boost switch from backfeeding RUN everywhere else.

You can add a switch in line with the diode to disable alternator charging if need be. I've been trying to figure out how much current the relay takes to close, so we can figure out what $1 diode to use

But a better solution would be a smart combiner/separator, which would tie the two batteries together whenever one or the other side is actually charging... and disconnect them if either side drops too low. Bluego should be able to recommend one.

Kev

I'm understanding what you are suggesting. I can simply change out my "old school" solenoid with the device you are recommending.
Thanks for the help and point me to Bluego or the thread that has the information. The information thread I need is replacing the bulb in the rear entry handrail and bulb in the light fixture above dark tank valve.

[Blue~Go]

Hi Redding native,

So, I'm going to outline what can work, and is a modern, good practice way to do it. The reason I state it this way, is that I'm not totally clear on all the details of your wiring now. But, see if this makes sense:

1) You want a heavy positive cable running from your Ford start battery positive to your Chinook house bank positive. This cable will be doing two things (presuming you want self jump start).

a) Carrying charging voltage from your alternator to your house bank.
b) Carrying start amperage from your house bank to your start battery (self jump start).

For my system (my starter, my alternator), the best reasonable size for this (IMO) was 1/0 cable. Reason I say this is that I needed to be able to fuse to around 225 amps in order to accommodate the starter current. The gravy is then that you have very little voltage drop for charging your house bank. You *can* just get away with 2AWG wire, but that's stretching the fusing a bit. This presumes your generation of starter draws similar amperage to the V10 starter.

2) Once you have this cable, then all you need to do is interrupt it somewhere along its run (doesn't matter where, so I'd consider where it is least hot, least wet, and where you can reach it from time to time (to lock it out, etc.) You then place a Blue Sea 7622 into that space (so the positive wire is broken, and each side of the "break" attaches to the Blue Sea 7622.

3) The other side to the equation is that you have to have a negative circuit as well. In my era (and I'd reckon yours most likely as well), Chinook used the chassis for 90% of the run. That's fine. But there are going to be two short connector wires too. One from the house bank negative to the frame, and one from the Ford start battery negative to the frame. These should also both be whatever size you have for the positive wire (1/0) because otherwise you have a weak link in the fusing.

Now, if you only want charging, and not self jump starting, you could consider other options (charging doesn't require quite as much fusing, although you'd be facing more voltage drop with smaller wire). Also, you can run a manual switch. That's what I have. BUT, I only combine once in a blue moon. I would probably go with the 7622 if I combined on a regular basis (actually I do have that system on a boat where I want to combine most of the time).

Before I write more, let's hear what you are thinking at this point.

Also, the usual caveats: I'm not an electrician, don't do anything you are not comfortable with, etc. etc.

BG

[reddingnative]

Hi Redding native,

So, I'm going to outline what can work, and is a modern, good practice way to do it. The reason I state it this way, is that I'm not totally clear on all the details of your wiring now. But, see if this makes sense:

1) You want a heavy positive cable running from your Ford start battery positive to your Chinook house bank positive. This cable will be doing two things (presuming you want self jump start).

a) Carrying charging voltage from your alternator to your house bank.
b) Carrying start amperage from your house bank to your start battery (self jump start).

For my system (my starter, my alternator), the best reasonable size for this (IMO) was 1/0 cable. Reason I say this is that I needed to be able to fuse to around 225 amps in order to accommodate the starter current. The gravy is then that you have very little voltage drop for charging your house bank. You *can* just get away with 2AWG wire, but that's stretching the fusing a bit. This presumes your generation of starter draws similar amperage to the V10 starter.

2) Once you have this cable, then all you need to do is interrupt it somewhere along its run (doesn't matter where, so I'd consider where it is least hot, least wet, and where you can reach it from time to time (to lock it out, etc.) You then place a Blue Sea 7622 into that space (so the positive wire is broken, and each side of the "break" attaches to the Blue Sea 7622.

3) The other side to the equation is that you have to have a negative circuit as well. In my era (and I'd reckon yours most likely as well), Chinook used the chassis for 90% of the run. That's fine. But there are going to be two short connector wires too. One from the house bank negative to the frame, and one from the Ford start battery negative to the frame. These should also both be whatever size you have for the positive wire (1/0) because otherwise you have a weak link in the fusing.

Now, if you only want charging, and not self jump starting, you could consider other options (charging doesn't require quite as much fusing, although you'd be facing more voltage drop with smaller wire). Also, you can run a manual switch. That's what I have. BUT, I only combine once in a blue moon. I would probably go with the 7622 if I combined on a regular basis (actually I do have that system on a boat where I want to combine most of the time).

Before I write more, let's hear what you are thinking at this point.

Also, the usual caveats: I'm not an electrician, don't do anything you are not comfortable with, etc. etc.

BG

This is awesome and thanks for posting. My wiring diagram is exactly what kdarling posted on first page. It says pre 1996 diagram, very easy to read as compared to the wiring diagram posted above it.
I have two old school solenoids, one for emergency starting with momentary switch for drawing current from both engine and house batteries and the other solenoid for powering the house or charging the house battery via the progressive industries converter. Either way the "Red" rocker switch must be placed in the "In Use" position and illuminated to allow current to flow either way.

The emergency start solenoid has a 4 gauge wire approx. 8 inches long that attaches to the right large post and attaches to the positive terminal of the engine battery. There is a 4 gauge wire attached to the left large post that terminates at the positive terminal of the house battery. There are two smaller terminals on the front of same solenoid. The right terminal has a wire that terminates at the momentary switch, the left terminal goes to ground. The posted wiring diagram is correct. My solenoids are mounted in the engine compartment on the firewall closest to the engine battery.
So, along with the 7622, what remote battery switch would you suggest to eliminate the house solenoid. Looks like I can change the gauge of my wires in engine compartment for the 7622 and then add a remote battery switch for the house battery. Only drawback, no pun intended, is that the wire connecting to the house convertor is a small gauge.